.
A 4-year-old boy was asked to return thanks before a big dinner. The family members bowed their heads in expectation. He began his prayer, thanking God for all his friends, naming them one by one. Then he thanked God for Mommy, Daddy, brother, sister, Grandma, Grandpa, and all his aunts and uncles. Then he began to thank God for the food. He gave thanks for the turkey, the dressing, the fruit salad, the cranberry sauce, the pies, the cakes, even the Cool Whip.
Then he paused, and everyone waited--and waited. After a long silence, the young fellow looked up at his mother and asked, "If I thank God for the broccoli, won't he know that I'm lying?"
This reminds me of Pascal's wager where it is intimated that it is better to believe God exists just in case he does. Of course, an all-knowing God, as implied by the boy in the joke, would know that that was your tactic and you would be off to hell for not being a true believer or at least you wouldn't be allowed into the kingdom of heaven.
It is my belief that families that say grace fare not better in life's allotment of good and bad than do families that don't engage in the ritual.
Has anyone done such a study? Would it be worthwhile?
Sunday, September 14, 2008
Sunday, September 07, 2008
God exists...
.
.
...in the same sense that Mickey Mouse, Superman, Santa Claus and the tooth fairy do.
In fact I prefer those four. The first two are entertaining. The latter two bring you things.
What has God done for me lately?
Over to you G.
Hello?
A reporter is in Israel reporting on the conflict there. She decides to
seek out a *human interest* story. She hears about an old man who has been
praying at the Wailing Wall as long as anyone can remember. Every day he is
there, praying. So she seeks him out and finds him at the Wall. She begins
to interview him:
"Sir, how long have you been coming to pray here at the Wall?"
"Madam," he replies, "I have been coming here every day for the past 50
years, to pray."
"And what do you pray for?"
"Madam, I pray for peace in our land, that the children of Jews and the
Children of Arabs can grow up in peace and harmony."
"That's wonderful," she replies. "And how do feel after coming here to the
Wailing Wall for 50 years?"
"Madam," he says, "I feel as if I'm talking to a wall!"
.
...in the same sense that Mickey Mouse, Superman, Santa Claus and the tooth fairy do.
In fact I prefer those four. The first two are entertaining. The latter two bring you things.
What has God done for me lately?
Over to you G.
Hello?
A reporter is in Israel reporting on the conflict there. She decides to
seek out a *human interest* story. She hears about an old man who has been
praying at the Wailing Wall as long as anyone can remember. Every day he is
there, praying. So she seeks him out and finds him at the Wall. She begins
to interview him:
"Sir, how long have you been coming to pray here at the Wall?"
"Madam," he replies, "I have been coming here every day for the past 50
years, to pray."
"And what do you pray for?"
"Madam, I pray for peace in our land, that the children of Jews and the
Children of Arabs can grow up in peace and harmony."
"That's wonderful," she replies. "And how do feel after coming here to the
Wailing Wall for 50 years?"
"Madam," he says, "I feel as if I'm talking to a wall!"
Where was God?
.
I received an e-mail with the following prayer
Dear God, I pray for the cure of cancer. Amen.
To forward it on to show I care
Pass it on again and again.
This struck me as a little odd
Who created cancer if not God?
To benevolence he is a traitor.
Another free ride for the creator?
He could deliver many cures as presents
His lack of action denies his essence.
He creates existence and then fatal disease
To gain our worship, Oh come now, please!
We can do much better with the generation
Of the products of our fertile imagination!
Superman arrives to prevent a plane crash
Then saves Lois with a speeding bullet dash.
We cheer him on, he is a hero
On the bench, a godly zero.
He was active in ancient times
Now he allows the commission of crimes.
He could assist and receive our praise,
But we see no plan, no action, no plays.
Most conspicuous by his absence
His non-existence does make sense.
.
I received an e-mail with the following prayer
Dear God, I pray for the cure of cancer. Amen.
To forward it on to show I care
Pass it on again and again.
This struck me as a little odd
Who created cancer if not God?
To benevolence he is a traitor.
Another free ride for the creator?
He could deliver many cures as presents
His lack of action denies his essence.
He creates existence and then fatal disease
To gain our worship, Oh come now, please!
We can do much better with the generation
Of the products of our fertile imagination!
Superman arrives to prevent a plane crash
Then saves Lois with a speeding bullet dash.
We cheer him on, he is a hero
On the bench, a godly zero.
He was active in ancient times
Now he allows the commission of crimes.
He could assist and receive our praise,
But we see no plan, no action, no plays.
Most conspicuous by his absence
His non-existence does make sense.
.
Friday, September 05, 2008
Cancer Cure
I received an e-mail today with the following prayer in it.
Dear God, I pray for the cure of cancer. Amen
The recipients of the e-mail were asked to keep the e-mail circulating.
This struck me as a little odd. Who created cancer if not God? What makes the author think that God will now help us to cure cancer?
It seems to me that God has been getting a free ride on this one for a long time. If he exists and is responsible for cancer then he should be rightly condemned for it not petitioned for aid.
Humans have made great strides against cancer and will one day conquer it no thanks to the deity and the gratuitous suffering cancer has caused to millions.
He should be ashamed of himself.
However, it really looks like there is no god and that gratuitous suffering is part of life in a universe that doesn't much care that we are in it.
Dear God, I pray for the cure of cancer. Amen
The recipients of the e-mail were asked to keep the e-mail circulating.
This struck me as a little odd. Who created cancer if not God? What makes the author think that God will now help us to cure cancer?
It seems to me that God has been getting a free ride on this one for a long time. If he exists and is responsible for cancer then he should be rightly condemned for it not petitioned for aid.
Humans have made great strides against cancer and will one day conquer it no thanks to the deity and the gratuitous suffering cancer has caused to millions.
He should be ashamed of himself.
However, it really looks like there is no god and that gratuitous suffering is part of life in a universe that doesn't much care that we are in it.
Wednesday, September 03, 2008
Designed by God
From a circulating internet e-mail:
Why Women Are Crabby
We started to 'bud' in our blouses at 9 or 10 years old only to find that anything that came in contact with those tender, blooming buds hurt so bad it brought us to tears. So came the ridiculously uncomfortable training bra contraption that the boys in school would snap until we had calluses on our backs.
Next, we get our periods in our early to mid-teens (or sooner). Along with those budding boobs, we bloated, we cramped, we got the hormone crankies, had to wear little mattresses between our legs or insert tubular, packed cotton rods in places we didn't even know we had.
Our next little rite of passage was having sex for the first time which was about as much fun as having a ramrod push your uterus through your nostrils (IF he did it right and didn't end up with his little cart before his horse), leaving us to wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then it was off to Motherhood where we learned to live on dry crackers and water for a few months so we didn't spend the entire day leaning over Brother John . Of course, amazing creatures that we are (and we are), we learned to live with the growing little angels inside us steadily kicking our innards night and day making us wonder if we were preparing to have Rosemary's Baby.
Our once flat bellies looked like we swallowed a whole watermelon and we pee'd our pants every time we sneezed. When the big moment arrived, the dam in our blessed Nether Regions invariably burst right in the middle of the mall and we had to waddle, with our big cartoon feet, moaning in pain all the way to the ER.
Then it was huff and puff and beg to die while theOB ? says, 'Please stop screaming, Mrs. Hearmeroar Calm down and push. 'Just one more good push' (more like 10), warranting a strong, well-deserved impulse to punch the
%$#*@*#!* hubby and doctor square in the nose for making us cram a wiggling, mushroom-headed 10 pound bowling ball through a keyhole.
After that, it was time to raise those angels only to find that when all that 'cute' wears off, the beautiful little darlings morphed into walking, jabbering, wet, gooey, snot-blowing, life-sucking little poop machines.
Then come their 'Teen Years.' Need I say more?
When the kids are almost grown, we women hit our voracious sexual prime in our early 40's - while hubby had his somewhere around his 18th birthday.
So we progress into the grand finale: 'The Menopause', the Grandmother of all womanhood. It's either take HRT and chance cancer in those now seasoned 'buds' or the aforemention ed Nether Regions, or, sweat like a hog in July, wash your sheets and pillowcases daily and bite the head off anything that moves.
Now, you ask WHY women seem to be more spiteful than men, when men get off so easy, INCLUDING the icing on life's cake: Being able to pee in the woods without soaking their socks...
So, while I love being a woman, 'Womanhood' would make the Great Gandhi a tad crabby. You think women are the 'weaker sex'? Yeah right. Bite me.
And God admired woman and could see no improvements to be made and said it was good.
Design by God? Give me a break!
When human designers see problems they come out with a new improved version. God seems to have washed his hands of the matter of human improvement. We have taken it on. As we would in a universe without a creator god.
Why Women Are Crabby
We started to 'bud' in our blouses at 9 or 10 years old only to find that anything that came in contact with those tender, blooming buds hurt so bad it brought us to tears. So came the ridiculously uncomfortable training bra contraption that the boys in school would snap until we had calluses on our backs.
Next, we get our periods in our early to mid-teens (or sooner). Along with those budding boobs, we bloated, we cramped, we got the hormone crankies, had to wear little mattresses between our legs or insert tubular, packed cotton rods in places we didn't even know we had.
Our next little rite of passage was having sex for the first time which was about as much fun as having a ramrod push your uterus through your nostrils (IF he did it right and didn't end up with his little cart before his horse), leaving us to wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then it was off to Motherhood where we learned to live on dry crackers and water for a few months so we didn't spend the entire day leaning over Brother John . Of course, amazing creatures that we are (and we are), we learned to live with the growing little angels inside us steadily kicking our innards night and day making us wonder if we were preparing to have Rosemary's Baby.
Our once flat bellies looked like we swallowed a whole watermelon and we pee'd our pants every time we sneezed. When the big moment arrived, the dam in our blessed Nether Regions invariably burst right in the middle of the mall and we had to waddle, with our big cartoon feet, moaning in pain all the way to the ER.
Then it was huff and puff and beg to die while theOB ? says, 'Please stop screaming, Mrs. Hearmeroar Calm down and push. 'Just one more good push' (more like 10), warranting a strong, well-deserved impulse to punch the
%$#*@*#!* hubby and doctor square in the nose for making us cram a wiggling, mushroom-headed 10 pound bowling ball through a keyhole.
After that, it was time to raise those angels only to find that when all that 'cute' wears off, the beautiful little darlings morphed into walking, jabbering, wet, gooey, snot-blowing, life-sucking little poop machines.
Then come their 'Teen Years.' Need I say more?
When the kids are almost grown, we women hit our voracious sexual prime in our early 40's - while hubby had his somewhere around his 18th birthday.
So we progress into the grand finale: 'The Menopause', the Grandmother of all womanhood. It's either take HRT and chance cancer in those now seasoned 'buds' or the aforemention ed Nether Regions, or, sweat like a hog in July, wash your sheets and pillowcases daily and bite the head off anything that moves.
Now, you ask WHY women seem to be more spiteful than men, when men get off so easy, INCLUDING the icing on life's cake: Being able to pee in the woods without soaking their socks...
So, while I love being a woman, 'Womanhood' would make the Great Gandhi a tad crabby. You think women are the 'weaker sex'? Yeah right. Bite me.
And God admired woman and could see no improvements to be made and said it was good.
Design by God? Give me a break!
When human designers see problems they come out with a new improved version. God seems to have washed his hands of the matter of human improvement. We have taken it on. As we would in a universe without a creator god.
Monday, August 25, 2008
Looking Heavenward
The temporary Sunday School teacher was struggling to open a combination lock on the supply cabinet. She had been told the combination, but couldn't quite remember it.
She went to the pastor's study and asked for help. The pastor came into the room and began to turn the dial.
After the first two numbers he paused and stared blankly for a moment.Finally he looked serenely heavenward and his lips moved silently.
Then he looked back at the lock, and quickly turned to the final number, and opened the lock.
The teacher was amazed. "I'm in awe at your faith, pastor," she said.
"It's really nothing," he answered. "The number is on a piece of tape on the ceiling." 1
This is the 21st century and I think that most of us know deep in our hearts what the pastor in the above quip knows: there is no one up there to help.
Or as the religious would say: God helps those who help themselves.
Ergo, what need have we of God?
We found ourselves in God's country and we put in air conditioning. He provides diseases. We cure them, eventually. His country is not the most comfy place for the humans he loves. We have done better. Kind of improved on his design. We do that a lot.
It is easier to realize that he is not there than to try and make excuses to save him from irrelevance.
We act like he is not there. That is why science is effective and prayer is not.
==============================
1 - Beliefnet Daily Joke of the day
She went to the pastor's study and asked for help. The pastor came into the room and began to turn the dial.
After the first two numbers he paused and stared blankly for a moment.Finally he looked serenely heavenward and his lips moved silently.
Then he looked back at the lock, and quickly turned to the final number, and opened the lock.
The teacher was amazed. "I'm in awe at your faith, pastor," she said.
"It's really nothing," he answered. "The number is on a piece of tape on the ceiling." 1
This is the 21st century and I think that most of us know deep in our hearts what the pastor in the above quip knows: there is no one up there to help.
Or as the religious would say: God helps those who help themselves.
Ergo, what need have we of God?
We found ourselves in God's country and we put in air conditioning. He provides diseases. We cure them, eventually. His country is not the most comfy place for the humans he loves. We have done better. Kind of improved on his design. We do that a lot.
It is easier to realize that he is not there than to try and make excuses to save him from irrelevance.
We act like he is not there. That is why science is effective and prayer is not.
==============================
1 - Beliefnet Daily Joke of the day
Saturday, August 23, 2008
Fish Cancer Gene
On August 18th 2008 there was an announcement from Ohio University to the effect that female swordtails are attracted to male swordtails that have cancerous melanoma spots. These spots are dark and while the melanoma is deadly to males the females are attracted to them. (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/ou-fcg081808.php)
Is God behind this state of affairs? Why would he want to preserve reproduction from fish with the melanoma gene turned on? What kind of a design is that?
It makes perfect sense in a uncaring, undirected universe but is puzzling in a universe ordered by a benevolent deity.
On the same day it was announced in the Chicago Tribune that many Americans believe that God could save a family member even if doctors say it is hopeless. Apparently, 20 per cent of medical personnel also believe this. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/health/sns-ap-med-god-vs-doctors,0,1888394.story)
Why would the deity play random favorites? When the relative doesn't survive is that a result of god's failure to act?
Evidently, many Americans are capable of avoiding cognitive dissonance by maintaining blurry boundaries between reality and fantasy. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
While God intervenes in hopeless cases and restores full health to some it is to be noted that he always ignores amputees. Not worthy of a full recovery I guess. Prayers don't seem to work for them either.
Perfectly logical if he is not there.
-------------------------------------
Is God behind this state of affairs? Why would he want to preserve reproduction from fish with the melanoma gene turned on? What kind of a design is that?
It makes perfect sense in a uncaring, undirected universe but is puzzling in a universe ordered by a benevolent deity.
On the same day it was announced in the Chicago Tribune that many Americans believe that God could save a family member even if doctors say it is hopeless. Apparently, 20 per cent of medical personnel also believe this. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/health/sns-ap-med-god-vs-doctors,0,1888394.story)
Why would the deity play random favorites? When the relative doesn't survive is that a result of god's failure to act?
Evidently, many Americans are capable of avoiding cognitive dissonance by maintaining blurry boundaries between reality and fantasy. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
While God intervenes in hopeless cases and restores full health to some it is to be noted that he always ignores amputees. Not worthy of a full recovery I guess. Prayers don't seem to work for them either.
Perfectly logical if he is not there.
-------------------------------------
Tuesday, August 05, 2008
Early American Religious Opinion
Pretty strong and astute stuff from some of the founders.
Religions are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies. Thomas Jefferson
Religious leaders will always avail themselves of public ignorance for their own purpose. Thomas Jefferson
This would be the best of all possible worlds if their were no religion in it. John Adams
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise. James Madison
Faith is believing something you know ain't true. Mark Twain
A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. Mark Twain
As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers. Robert Ingersoll
Of all the tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst. Thomas Paine
The greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called religion. Thomas Paine
All natural institutions of churches, appear to me human inventions, setup to terrify and enslave mankind. Thomas Paine
Lighthouses are more helpful than churches. Benjamin Franklin
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. Benjamin Franklin
Not a founder but I throw him in anyway.
I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven or hell, or of a god. Thomas Edison
Religions are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies. Thomas Jefferson
Religious leaders will always avail themselves of public ignorance for their own purpose. Thomas Jefferson
This would be the best of all possible worlds if their were no religion in it. John Adams
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise. James Madison
Faith is believing something you know ain't true. Mark Twain
A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. Mark Twain
As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers. Robert Ingersoll
Of all the tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst. Thomas Paine
The greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called religion. Thomas Paine
All natural institutions of churches, appear to me human inventions, setup to terrify and enslave mankind. Thomas Paine
Lighthouses are more helpful than churches. Benjamin Franklin
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. Benjamin Franklin
Not a founder but I throw him in anyway.
I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven or hell, or of a god. Thomas Edison
Why Isn't It This Simple?
A kindergarten teacher was observing her classroom of children while they drew. She would occasionally walk around to see each child's artwork. As she got to one little girl who was working diligently, she asked what the drawing was.
The girl replied, "I'm drawing God."The teacher paused and said, "but no one knows what God looks like."
Without missing a beat, or looking up from her drawing the girl replied, "They will in a minute."
Why isn't it this simple?
Either God is made of something or he is made of nothing.
Two branches. Are there others?
If he is made of something then from whence that something?
If he is made of nothing then what are we talking about?
One branch leads to an infinite regress as we must explain the constitution of god with another god-like being who is also made of something but where did that something come from? Ad infinitum.
The other branch leads to nothing.
Either branch negates god.
Therefore can we not conclude that god is a creation of the human mind just like Santa, Superman and the Tooth Fairy?
The girl replied, "I'm drawing God."The teacher paused and said, "but no one knows what God looks like."
Without missing a beat, or looking up from her drawing the girl replied, "They will in a minute."
Why isn't it this simple?
Either God is made of something or he is made of nothing.
Two branches. Are there others?
If he is made of something then from whence that something?
If he is made of nothing then what are we talking about?
One branch leads to an infinite regress as we must explain the constitution of god with another god-like being who is also made of something but where did that something come from? Ad infinitum.
The other branch leads to nothing.
Either branch negates god.
Therefore can we not conclude that god is a creation of the human mind just like Santa, Superman and the Tooth Fairy?
Sunday, July 27, 2008
Pun with Monks
Religion can be fun so let's have some pun with monks. This is one of my favorites.
Lost on a rainy night, a nun stumbles across a monastery and requests shelter there. Fortunately, she's just in time for dinner and was treated to the best fish and chips she's ever had.
After dinner, she goes into the kitchen to thank the chefs.
She is met by two brothers, "Hello, I'm Brother Michael, and this is Brother Charles."
"I'm very pleased to meet you. I just wanted to thank you for a wonderful dinner. The fish and chips were the best I've ever tasted. Out of curiosity, who cooked what?"
Brother Charles replied, "Well, I'm the fish friar."
She turns the other brother and says, "Then you must be...?"
"Yes, I'm the chip monk."
Lost on a rainy night, a nun stumbles across a monastery and requests shelter there. Fortunately, she's just in time for dinner and was treated to the best fish and chips she's ever had.
After dinner, she goes into the kitchen to thank the chefs.
She is met by two brothers, "Hello, I'm Brother Michael, and this is Brother Charles."
"I'm very pleased to meet you. I just wanted to thank you for a wonderful dinner. The fish and chips were the best I've ever tasted. Out of curiosity, who cooked what?"
Brother Charles replied, "Well, I'm the fish friar."
She turns the other brother and says, "Then you must be...?"
"Yes, I'm the chip monk."
Wednesday, July 23, 2008
Caterpillars
In the Toronto freebie daily 24 hours of July 15, 2008 it was reported that a lady tourist who was trekking in northeastern Peru on an organized tour in 2007 had “a freak encounter with tragic consequences”. Ten days after stepping on 5 caterpillars of the Lonomia genus she died. These caterpillars defend themselves from their perceived enemies by secreting a toxin that causes hemorrhaging in humans.
This, of course, is an example of how our universe has been fine tuned for our arrival by an intelligent and benevolent designer who loves us.
To address this bit of noxious mayhem scientists set about concocting an antivenin to counteract the effects of the toxin.
Humans realize that the world in which they find themselves is replete with unknown dangers inimical to their health and life. Life is not easy; it is precarious and can be wiped out in a flash from all manner of natural phenomena.
To say that the universe is designed for the appearance of human life is to say that the designer is a sick kid in love with booby traps. Is this done for the amusement of the creator?
Humans seek a better world than the one that was prepared for us. We do this through the investigation of our world and inventing improvements that make life more comfortable. Hence Carl Sagan's book, The Demon Haunted World, subtitle makes sense: science as a candle in the dark. We have no operating guide for the universe. We must write our own as we go along. No God is more compatible with the indifferent world we find ourselves in than any deity proffered by religion.
Would we not expect to find an uncaring environment in a world without a benevolent designer?
I forget who said it but: “the universe did not know we were coming and now that we have arrived it doesn't give a s__t. “
This, of course, is an example of how our universe has been fine tuned for our arrival by an intelligent and benevolent designer who loves us.
To address this bit of noxious mayhem scientists set about concocting an antivenin to counteract the effects of the toxin.
Humans realize that the world in which they find themselves is replete with unknown dangers inimical to their health and life. Life is not easy; it is precarious and can be wiped out in a flash from all manner of natural phenomena.
To say that the universe is designed for the appearance of human life is to say that the designer is a sick kid in love with booby traps. Is this done for the amusement of the creator?
Humans seek a better world than the one that was prepared for us. We do this through the investigation of our world and inventing improvements that make life more comfortable. Hence Carl Sagan's book, The Demon Haunted World, subtitle makes sense: science as a candle in the dark. We have no operating guide for the universe. We must write our own as we go along. No God is more compatible with the indifferent world we find ourselves in than any deity proffered by religion.
Would we not expect to find an uncaring environment in a world without a benevolent designer?
I forget who said it but: “the universe did not know we were coming and now that we have arrived it doesn't give a s__t. “
Wednesday, July 16, 2008
Not Easily Answered
Epicurus was an ancient Greek philosopher who lived between 341 and 270 BCE. He is credited with the following statement of the problem of evil.
From Wikipedia
Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" — Epicurus, as quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief
From David Hume crediting Epicurus in his Dialogues concerning Natural Religion:
"Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
As follows, a more formal presentation of the argument can be found in Wikipedia:
Logical problem of evil
1. God exists. (premise)
2. God is omnipotent and omniscient. (premise — or true by definition of the word "God")
3. God is all-benevolent. (premise — or true by definition)
4. All-benevolent beings are opposed to all evil. (premise — or true by definition)
5. All-benevolent beings who can eliminate evil will do so immediately when they become aware of it. (premise)
6. God is opposed to all evil. (conclusion from 3 and 4)
7. God can eliminate evil completely and immediately. (conclusion from 2)
1. Whatever the end result of suffering is, God can bring it about by ways that do not include suffering. (conclusion from 2)
2. God has no reason not to eliminate evil. (conclusion from 7.1)
3. God has no reason not to act immediately. (conclusion from 5)
8. God will eliminate evil completely and immediately. (conclusion from 6, 7.2 and 7.3)
9. Evil exists, has existed, and probably will always exist. (premise)
10. Items 8 and 9 are contradictory; therefore, one or more of the premises is false: either God does not exist, evil does not exist, God is not simultaneously omnipotent, omniscient and all-benevolent, or all-benevolent beings who can eliminate evil will not necessarily do so immediately when they become aware of it.
Of the options in 10 which is most likely?
The problem of evil calls into question the very definition of the word God that most of us were brought up to accept. That God cannot exist. So what definition should we now employ?
The field is open.
If we take up the challenge aren't we engaging in make believe?
From Wikipedia
Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" — Epicurus, as quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief
From David Hume crediting Epicurus in his Dialogues concerning Natural Religion:
"Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
As follows, a more formal presentation of the argument can be found in Wikipedia:
Logical problem of evil
1. God exists. (premise)
2. God is omnipotent and omniscient. (premise — or true by definition of the word "God")
3. God is all-benevolent. (premise — or true by definition)
4. All-benevolent beings are opposed to all evil. (premise — or true by definition)
5. All-benevolent beings who can eliminate evil will do so immediately when they become aware of it. (premise)
6. God is opposed to all evil. (conclusion from 3 and 4)
7. God can eliminate evil completely and immediately. (conclusion from 2)
1. Whatever the end result of suffering is, God can bring it about by ways that do not include suffering. (conclusion from 2)
2. God has no reason not to eliminate evil. (conclusion from 7.1)
3. God has no reason not to act immediately. (conclusion from 5)
8. God will eliminate evil completely and immediately. (conclusion from 6, 7.2 and 7.3)
9. Evil exists, has existed, and probably will always exist. (premise)
10. Items 8 and 9 are contradictory; therefore, one or more of the premises is false: either God does not exist, evil does not exist, God is not simultaneously omnipotent, omniscient and all-benevolent, or all-benevolent beings who can eliminate evil will not necessarily do so immediately when they become aware of it.
Of the options in 10 which is most likely?
The problem of evil calls into question the very definition of the word God that most of us were brought up to accept. That God cannot exist. So what definition should we now employ?
The field is open.
If we take up the challenge aren't we engaging in make believe?
Monday, July 14, 2008
How to prove the universe is eternal.
....................................................................................................
Either God is composed of something or God is composed of nothing.
If God is composed of something then what is that something and where did it come from?
If God is composed of nothing then what are we talking about?
God is often described in nots: not material, not physical, not visible, not natural, not perceivable, not comprehensible and not mortal. Amen! It appears that God is not much of anything and yet he/she/it is also described as perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent, omni-present creator of the universe. How nothing can possess these latter characteristics and perform these great feats is no longer a mystery. Fictional characters can be anything we want. They don't even have to make sense.
Facetiously, a conclusion to the foregoing can be drawn: if God is nothing then nothing created the universe which would imply that the universe is eternal.
Perhaps in the matter of deities a Delos McKown quote is appropriate: the invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.
Either God is composed of something or God is composed of nothing.
If God is composed of something then what is that something and where did it come from?
If God is composed of nothing then what are we talking about?
God is often described in nots: not material, not physical, not visible, not natural, not perceivable, not comprehensible and not mortal. Amen! It appears that God is not much of anything and yet he/she/it is also described as perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent, omni-present creator of the universe. How nothing can possess these latter characteristics and perform these great feats is no longer a mystery. Fictional characters can be anything we want. They don't even have to make sense.
Facetiously, a conclusion to the foregoing can be drawn: if God is nothing then nothing created the universe which would imply that the universe is eternal.
Perhaps in the matter of deities a Delos McKown quote is appropriate: the invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.
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